hummingwolf | I don't understand people.

Once again, one of my friends has been turned down by a woman because he's a nice guy. This bad-boy addiction some women have was discussed some time ago on

anoisblue's journal, and guess what? I still don't get it.

Oh, I can relate to those who find themselves attracted to inappropriate people. I have sympathy for folks who, in spite of the fact that their love object is a jerk, find their hearts drawn in by some mystical force greater than themselves blah blah blah. We've all been there. Many of us have tried to justify our yearning, saying, "He/She really isn't as uncaring as s/he seems, they're just in the middle of a really bad week/month/year/incarnation." I once fell for a guy who'd have been emotionally abusive if he'd had the wit to figure out what my weaknesses were. Took me a while to realize what kind of bastard he was as he chose to go after me in the one area of my life where I wasn't insecure. (Tip for aspiring abusive types: If your prospective abusee is eligible for Mensa and you are not, insulting the p.a.'s intelligence is probably not the best way to begin. The fact that someone is stupid enough to fall for you is not a reliable indication of a complete inability to grasp the obvious.)

So I can understand an unsought attraction to an asshole. But, assuming that my friend's account is not entirely distorted, the girl turned him down because she didn't want to date somebody she can hurt. I've seen this attitude before--from men as well as women--that someone is poor dating material because they care too much. And after a great deal of contemplation over a period of many years, my deeply-considered response is: Huh???

continued
What planet are these people from where possiblity of being hurt is an undesirable characteristic in a partner? The only person who can't be hurt is the person who does not care. Any time two people love each other--heck, any time two people have developed even the slightest regard for each other--they not only can hurt each other, they will hurt each other. Causing pain is what human beings do best. We're talented that way. The best of people may do it without meaning to, without even thinking about it, but they do it all the same.

We continue falling in love, not because there's any reason to believe we can avoid the pain, but because we know that sometimes a relationship is worth far more than the pain it causes. We know that the best relationships, the ones we long for and write endlessly earnest poetry about, are the ones where two people love each other, want the best for each other, and willingly sacrifice themselves if necessary for the good of the other. So why in the name of all that is sane would anyone choose to date someone whose heart is impervious to the claims of affection? Why make the conscious decision to seek out somebody who doesn't give a damn?

Hmm. Maybe the reason some people hunt for the cold of heart is that they believe themselves incapable of being of enough value to justify the inevitable pain. It would be nice if such people came with informative labels.

"Hi! I'm looking for a sociopath! If you'll use me and treat me like some worthless thing instead of a real person, I'll devote myself to you and sing your praises when you hurt me, making myself feel that whole wild roller-coaster of emotion they describe in the romance novels and pretending that what I feel is True Love, all while avoiding doing anything that would enable me to engage in the work of a genuine adult relationship.

"Warning: If you have any decency at all, I'm not interested in dating you. You still hafta hang around, though, 'cos I wanna be able to cry on your shoulder and moan about this Great Tragic Love of My Life, 'kay? Thanks!"

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

When I read this yesterday, I saw at once that your thoughts & perceptions are very keen, but I've done that dance a couple of times and had to let my feelings about it settle down before telling you I think you're right about a lot of this. It's easy to get hooked on drama in a self-defeating way, maybe even get so accustomed to it that a real mutuality would look boring. Isn't that a shame?

I hope your friend lucks out soon and finds someone who will value him for what he is, without dumping tales of Woe & Heartbreak on him like that.

Oh, I'm glad my post yesterday actually made sense! I was afraid that my rant would just be the incoherent raving of someone whose romantic knowledge is 99% second-hand.

It's easy to get hooked on drama in a self-defeating way, maybe even get so accustomed to it that a real mutuality would look boring.

I can understand wanting the emotional experience, up to a point. I was too unpopular in high school to ever go on a date, and when I had the chance to date in college I was much too cautious. Given that there was only a window of a few years of potential dating before I got too sick & fatigued to deal with men, I really wish I'd been less rational about everything--except in the case of the abuser-wannabe mentioned in my post, who triggered some intuitive alarms I should've paid more attention to. My only excuse in that case is that he had really pretty blue eyes.

I hope your friend lucks out soon and finds someone who will value him for what he is

I'm sure he will find her, when the time is right. He's a very special guy. If he didn't live so far away, I'd gladly be his stalker. :-)

Any time two people love each other--heck, any time two people have developed even the slightest regard for each other--they not only can hurt each other, they will hurt each other.

CB CB CB.... As much as I agreed with the rest of your post, I think this part is so wrong. I have some many friends I've known for most of my life and even some that I'm just beginning to know that would NEVER do anything to hurt me and I would NEVER do anything to hurt them. If everyone you ever encountered hurt you in some way, I think you're hanging out with the wrong crowd.

There is so many fantastic people out there. Maybe I was just extremely lucky to get to know a few.

/me hugs CB

Zoopie

Zoop, I wasn't talking about people who mean to be mean. I wasn't talking about people who go out of their way to be abusive. I'm talking about the fact that, without even realizing it, people do things that hurt, all the time, to everyone around them. It may be a hurt you can shrug off, something that you forget about later--but it happens. With everyone.

I understood what you meant and I still disagree:)

See, I don't see how you could've understood and not agreed with the statement. I don't think I've ever seen a situation where someone had known and had high regard for another person for more than about 6 months and hadn't been hurt by that person. The pain may not have lasted long and may have been forgotten about quickly, but it still happened.

I strongly believe those situations happen. I mean, I've had the same two best friends for almost 15 years and they NEVER did anything to hurt me, even without meaning it.

I think you just have worse experiences than mines:)

Zoop

wow. You're friends must be superhuman. I love my friends and my boyfriend and they love me, but sure as hell, of course we hurt each other sometimes. When we get confused, angry, defensive etc. we say things we don't mean.
Besides, what hurts one person may not hurt another since we all come from different psychological backgroudns.
Perhaps you have hurt your friends and they have not told you?

-Jennix

Hey Jennix!

Maybe I just have the best friends in the world, maybe it's just that I am way more rational than I am emotional.

It's probably both:)

Take care,

Zoopie

Oh, I agree with you! I think it has to do with people getting hurt in some way, by people they love, when they were young. That marks your for life unless you deal with it.

I know myself, having quite an emotionally upsetting childhood due to benig sensitive, bullied and parents don't understanding me. It is difficult to rise above yourself and stop the "feeling sorry for myself" thing but it has to be done, otherwise one will seek out partners who hurt you.

For me, caring is one of the defininf qualities in a human. I cannot be with people who does not care about things, about the world, about bad and good things.

I don't understand people.

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