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hummingwolf ([personal profile] hummingwolf) wrote2005-12-19 07:41 am
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Because this keeps coming up

For the folks who think that the only ways to approach the Bible are a "conservative" approach with a strict fundamentalist literalism or a "liberal" conviction that it can't teach them anything at all, here's a bit few pages of self-consciously conservative non-fundamentalist C.S. Lewis.


For us these writings are "holy", or "inspired", or, as St. Paul says, "the Oracles of God". But this has been understood in more than one way, and I must try to explain how I understand it, at least so far as the Old Testament is concerned. I have been suspected of being what is called a Fundamentalist. That is because I never regard any narrative as unhistorical simply on the ground that it includes the miraculous. Some people find the miraculous so hard to believe that they cannot imagine any reason for my acceptance of it other than a prior belief that every sentence of the Old Testament has historical or scientific truth. But this I do not hold, any more than St. Jerome did when he said that Moses described Creation "after the manner of a popular poet" (as we should say, mythically) or than Calvin did when he doubted whether the story of Job were history or fiction. The real reason why I can accept as historical a story in which a miracle occurs is that I have never found any philosophical grounds for the universal negative proposition that miracles do not happen. I have to decide on quite other grounds (if I decide at all) whether a given narrative is historical or not. The Book of Job appears to me unhistorical because it begins about a man quite unconnected with all history or even legend, with no genealogy, living in a country of which the Bible elsewhere has hardly anything to say; because, in fact, the author quite obviously writes as a story-teller not as a chronicler.

I have therefore no difficulty in accepting, say, the view of those scholars who tell us that the account of Creation in Genesis is derived from earlier Semitic stories which were Pagan and mythical. We must of course be quite clear what "derived from" means. Stories do not reproduce their species like mice. They are told by men. Each re-teller either repeats exactly what his predecessor had told him or else changes it. He may change it unknowingly or deliberately. If he changes it deliberately, his invention, his sense of form, his ethics, his ideas of what is fit, or edifying, or merely interesting, all come in. If unknowingly, then his unconscious (which is so largely responsible for our forgettings) has been at work. Thus at every step in what is called--a little misleadingly--the "evolution" of a story, a man, all he is and all his attitudes, are involved. And no good work is done anywhere without aid from the Father of Lights. When a series of such re-tellings turns a creation story which at first had almost no religious or metaphysical significance into a story which achieves the idea of true Creation and of a transcendent Creator (as Genesis does), then nothing will make me believe that some of the re-tellers, or some one of them, has not been guided by God.

Thus something originally merely natural--the kind of myth that is found among most nations--will have been raised by God above itself, qualified by Him and compelled by Him to serve purposes which of itself it would not have served. Generalising this, I take it that the whole Old Testament consists of the same sort of material as any other literature--chronicle (some of it obviously pretty accurate), poems, moral and political diatribes, romances, and what not; but all taken into the service of God's word. Not all, I suppose, in the same way. There are prophets who write with the clearest awareness that Divine compulsion is upon them. There are chroniclers whose intention may have been merely to record. There are poets like those in the Song of Songs who probably never dreamed of any but a secular and natural purpose in what they composed. There is (and it is no less important) the work first of the Jewish and then of the Christian Church in preserving and canonising just these books. There is the work of redactors and editors in modifying them. On all of these I suppose a Divine pressure; of which not by any means all need have been conscious.

The human qualities of the raw materials show through. Naïvety, error, contradiction, even (as in the cursing Psalms) wickedness are not removed. The total result is not "the Word of God" in the sense that every passage, in itself, gives impeccable science or history. It carries the Word of God; and we (under grace, with attention to tradition and to interpreters wiser than ourselves, and with the use of such intelligence and learning as we may have) receive that word from it not by using it as an encyclopedia or an encyclical but by steeping ourselves in its tone or temper and so learning its overall message.

To a human mind this working-up (in a sense imperfectly), this sublimation (incomplete) of human material, seems, no doubt, an untidy and leaky vehicle. We might have expected, we may think we should have preferred, an unrefracted light giving us ultimate truth in systematic form--something we could have tabulated and memorised and relied on like the multiplication table. One can respect, and at moments envy, both the Fundamentalist's view of the Bible and the Roman Catholic's view of the Church. But there is one argument which we should beware of using for either position: God must have done what is best, this is best, therefore God has done this. For we are mortals and do not know what is best for us, and it is dangerous to prescribe what God must have done--especially when we cannot, for the life of us, see that He has after all done it.


--C. S. Lewis, from Reflections on the Psalms (1958)

[identity profile] jarandhel.livejournal.com 2005-12-19 02:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Errm... what "liberals" think the bible can't teach anything at all?
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[identity profile] hummingwolf.livejournal.com 2005-12-19 02:40 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, I've talked with quite a few. Though for some reason this is most likely to happen with someone who used to be a fundamentalist of some type--they think they must believe in all or nothing, and if they no longer believe (their interpretation of) the Bible is 100% factually and morally correct, they figure the only alternative is to treat it just like any ordinary work of fiction.

[identity profile] jarandhel.livejournal.com 2005-12-19 02:42 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, yeah... but why do they think you can't learn anything from ordinary works of fiction? ^.^
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[identity profile] hummingwolf.livejournal.com 2005-12-19 02:46 pm (UTC)(link)
Heh. There's another good question!

The fundamentalist-type interpretation has taken over too much of the discussion of Christianity recently. The all-or-nothing stuff really gets my goat--and my goat is a very cute goat with great big soulful eyes, so he really needs to be in the care of somebody who can see shades of grey. Or something.

[identity profile] jarandhel.livejournal.com 2005-12-19 02:52 pm (UTC)(link)
Heh, I think one of the best things I ever learned from fiction was actually from one of CS Lewis's Books: The Final Battle (even though I generally liked that book least of the entire series). There's a scene in there where this guy from the other side is cowering before Aslan and regretting his life in service to Tash or whatever the bad guy's name is, and Aslan tells him that (paraphrased because it's a long scene and I'm not great at remembering it all) he has always been a servant of Aslan's, because good done in the evil one's name is still good, and evil done in Aslan's name is still evil, and whoever does good in whatever name is a true servant of Aslan (which I already knew, even at the age of twelve, was an allegory for Jesus) and whoever does evil in whatever name serves only the evil one.

[identity profile] jeweldevil.livejournal.com 2005-12-19 03:47 pm (UTC)(link)
I HATE that funda-mental attitude that if i don't think the bible to be 100% doctrine that I have no right believing in it at all. Like I can't believe that, while most of it is human hooey, some of it is divinely inspired.

[identity profile] jarandhel.livejournal.com 2005-12-19 04:04 pm (UTC)(link)
Not to mention the idea that humans could *gaspshockhorror* actually get some things right all on their own.

[identity profile] jeweldevil.livejournal.com 2005-12-19 09:07 pm (UTC)(link)
Humans have great capacity for wisdom. The hard part is that wisdom comes from listening, not talking.
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[identity profile] hummingwolf.livejournal.com 2005-12-20 01:23 am (UTC)(link)
And the listening shouldn't be limited to just hearing what you think people are saying, but what they actually say, as well as "listening" to the rest of life experiences rather than assuming you know it all already.

Humans are funny creatures, have you noticed?

[identity profile] jeweldevil.livejournal.com 2005-12-20 02:56 am (UTC)(link)
AND listening to more than just people that you agree with.
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[identity profile] hummingwolf.livejournal.com 2005-12-20 03:36 am (UTC)(link)
That too. But I've noticed a lot of times people don't know that someone is disagreeing with them because they only hear what they expect to hear rather than what's being said. There are also times when the reverse is true, when you can even get two people fighting with each other about something when they just can't recognize that they're in total agreement. So it doesn't matter whether you're listening to someone you agree with or not if you're not listening to their actual words anyway!

[identity profile] jeweldevil.livejournal.com 2005-12-20 03:41 am (UTC)(link)
The latter happens to me a lot. It's annoying. People don't fucking pay attention.
drgaellon: Lucifer (Lucifer)

[personal profile] drgaellon 2007-10-05 12:11 pm (UTC)(link)
Indeed. Can you say "Confucius"? Yeah...

I've always found it interesting to make note of those places where Western and Eastern morality coincide - and figure those are the things that really ARE right and proper. Don't steal, don't kill... and not a whole lot else.

[identity profile] jeweldevil.livejournal.com 2005-12-19 03:45 pm (UTC)(link)
yes, thank you. my sentiments exactly.
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[identity profile] hummingwolf.livejournal.com 2005-12-19 03:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Please feel free to link or c&p at will.