hummingwolf (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
hummingwolf) wrote2002-01-31 10:43 am
hummingwolf) wrote2002-01-31 10:43 am
Entry tags:
What do they *really* want, anyway?
Almost a year ago, there was a discussion on one of my favorite mailing lists about couple of lists AOL had about what men and women really want. If I ever do start dating again, this post should probably be required reading for any man crazy enough to think he wants to go out with me.
What do they really want, anyway?
At some ungodly hour this morning, one of the housemates cooked a dish which made my already-queasy stomach even queasier. Couldn't sleep after that. Just thought I should give y'all fair warning that I'm crabby.
>What Women Need to Know: 20 Things Men Find Irresistible
>
>Listen up, ladies! Men love it when you:
>
> 1. Have the ability to tease, be playful and take a joke
K wrote:
> Okay, I like this one. I like to laugh, but don't make
> fun of me. That I don't like.
With K on this one. Of course, I can take some good-natured teasing. But thanks to a rotten childhood, I have had more than enough mean-spirited ridicule to last the rest of my lifetime. Always remember that, given the choice between staying with an asshole and dying an old maid, I'll take spinsterhood in a heartbeat.
That said, personal history shows that an asshole with a sense of humor will keep my attention longer than the self-preservation instinct alone would allow.
> 2. Know that men are not, in fact, from Mars, and women
> are not from Venus
F wrote:
> And know that "self-help" books with bullshit catchy
> titles are a load of rotten bananas.
My parents collected self-help books. They inherited most of the books belonging to my grandfather, who also had a bunch of self-help books. I've not only read most of the famous ones, but I've read a few you've never heard of and never should have heard of. Nearly all self-help books, no matter what their authors' biases--unabashed capitalist, communist, Christian, Taoist, Buddhist, neopagan, atheist, positive thinker, utter cynic, behaviorist, cognitivist, Freudian, Jungian, whatever their credo or manifesto may be--have two things in common: 1. Some solid, common-sense advice, and 2. The veriest nonsense.
Here's what I'd like a man to understand: I am not going to be stereotypically feminine any more than I am going to be stereotypically masculine. I am also not going to be a stereotypical American, a stereotypical WASP, a stereotypical suburbanite, a stereotypical INFP, a stereotypical linguistics major with a minor in psychology, or a stereotypical anything else you might think I should be. I am going to be *me*. If a guy can't deal with that little fact--if he feels compelled to cram everyone he meets into some little box and gets all flustered when they crawl outside his imaginary walls--then he can stay the Hell out of my life.
> 3. Wear our T-shirts and boxers
K wrote:
> T-shirts, maybe, but I'm not wearing the boxers you farted
> in. I don't care *how* many times I've bleached them!
Love this. I like V's answer too--if a guy's got a leather jacket, can I wear it once in a while?
> 4. Call us out of the blue (if we're dating; not if
> we're practically strangers)
P wrote:
> Hell, I just want to find a woman who's willing to talk to
> me on the phone for more than 5 minutes.
I think I could do that. Unless my allergies are bad and I've got a killer sore throat.
> 5. Kiss creatively
If kissing like someone who doesn't know what the heck she's doing counts, then I can do that.
What? It's not like I've had any practice.
> 6. Have a social conscience and enjoy a good debate
I love a good debate. I dislike discussions with people who think that every disagreement with one of their opinions is a personal attack. I think for myself. Deal with it. And if a guy agrees with me on every point, I get bored and want to go home.
> 7. Have an easygoing attitude about watching or
> participating in athletic events occasionally
I don't much like watching sports, but I do enjoy watching people watching sports. I'm weird that way (among other ways).
> 8. Are comfortable leading the whole way in bed
Well, I can try to be the first to fall asleep, but I shan't make any promises.
> 9. Ask for advice about non-stereotypically male stuff
> (yes, guys usually know what CD player to buy, but we like
> to be taken seriously about other things too)
If I feel a need for advice, I'll ask just about anyone who seems unlikely to get upset if I decide not to follow it after all.
> 10. Are charming and thoughtful to his mother
If she managed to raise a guy who's worth spending time with, then I shall do my best to give her her due honor.
> 11. Can hold up your hair using only a pencil
Sorry, my hair also thinks for itself.
> 12. Are sexy and smart at the same time -- for example,
> you do the Sunday crossword wearing a pair of flirty
> pajamas
This would mean I'd have to *buy* flirty pajamas. I hate clothes
shopping.
U wrote:
> Flirty? Who the hell would get the crossword finished?
I was kinda wondering that myself.
F wrote:
> Doesn't this go without saying? I thought this came
> naturally to most women. Should, anyway.
Well, treating me with the respect that should be accorded to all human beings should come naturally to most men, but guess what?
> 13. Have the ability to remind us what gifts you like,
> without implying an obligation
K wrote:
> Don't worry. I'll let you know when the gift-buying
> occasions arise and you'll find a neatly typed list from
> which to choose no less than three items.
I love making Christmas lists. It holds the same appeal for me as filling out all our silly polls.
> 14. Have a spirit of independence, but one that doesn't
> make the man in your life feel unnecessary
Sweetie, you *are* unnecessary. How about if I make you feel *wanted*?
> 15. Know the difference between flirting and just ''being
> friendly''
If a man can accept the fact that I enjoy the company of men, then I can accept the fact that he enjoys the company of women. If a man feels that my social circle should be more circumscribed than his, then we have a problem.
> 16. Eat a big meal and fearlessly order dessert
Sometimes. I eat when I'm hungry, and I eat what I'm hungry for. And as my friends who've seen me at restaurants can attest, I'll try just about anything once.
> 17. Take naps next to us
Let me add my "sigh" to the chorus.
> 18. Send us flowers (believe it or not, men like getting
> flowers too!)
If I ever get money, I can do that.
> 19. Know what you want
> 20. Know what you want to do
I've got a decent idea of what I won't put up with and what I don't want to do. That should count for something.
>Listen up, guys! Women love it when you:
>
> 1. Own a pair of really nice shoes and actually wear them
Why should his shoes be any better than mine?
> 2. Brush the hair out of our eyes
Only if he's more coordinated than I am. Otherwise, I'll be afraid he's about to poke my eye out.
> 3. Are able to hold a baby or push a stroller without
> squirming
I'm not sure *I* can do this. Oh, I can push a stroller all right, but I'm always afraid the baby will have a sudden need for a diaper change as soon as it's transferred to my arms.
> 4. Plan an evening out from soup to nuts, from finding a
> movie to making the dinner reservations
Works for me. But if circumstances beyond his control interfere with his best-laid plans, I'd appreciate it if he'd manage not to have a heart attack.
> 5. Kiss creatively
It's a nice thought.
D wrote:
> Practice practice practice. If she will practice, I will
> improve.
Me too.
> 6. Handle our emotions with grace and compassion
But of course.
K wrote:
> Just let me cry. It has nothing to do with you and I
> don't expect you to fix it. Just hold me.
Ditto.
> 7. Have impassioned, informed opinions about women
> writers and women's issues
Okay, remember what I said in response to question 2 on the other side? I appreciate people who accept that individuals are in fact individuals and do not speak for an entire group, no matter what delusions of grandeur they may have.
>8. Can distinguish between being courteous and being wimpy
Sir Ector to Sir Launcelot, in Malory's _Le Morte Darthur_:
"Thou wert the meekest man that ever ate in hall among ladies; and thou wert the sternest knight to thy mortal foe that ever put spear in the rest."
There's a reason why knights in shining armor continue to have such appeal.
> 9. Know how to inscribe a card with a heartfelt, personal
> message
Well, sure.
> 10. Demonstrate respect for others by standing up when
> your mother comes to the table, giving up a seat on the
> bus for a pregnant woman, asking your dad for his opinion
> and really listening, etc.
The specific actions are less important than respect and the willingness to demonstrate that respect.
S wrote:
> I hold doors open for people and stuff, it can't be too
> hard for a guy to do it.
Ditto.
> 11. Show genuine, platonic interest in your female > friends' lives
U wrote:
> I should pretend that I am a homosexual and be
> philosophical about their problems? I think I can do the
> second part, but the first is right out, except in movies.
and P wrote:
> 100% platonic? Ain't gonna happen. I got too many
> attractive friends.
I can appreciate that. Just please try not to drool.
> 12. Are playful around dogs, cats and kids
and me. :-)
> 13. Make the bed in the morning and fold the laundry -- > competently
G wrote:
> Nope. I just throw the doona back over the bed. Laundry?
> eh, couldn't care less.
I can't fold sheets, so I'd appreciate it if someone else could get them in decent shape to stuff in the drawer. Fresh sheets feel nice. Otherwise, I don't much care about whether laundry is folded or not, which is evidenced by the fact that my clothes generally look like I've slept in them.
Oh, and G gets points for using "couldn't care less" instead of the annoying "could care less" construct. I once had an English teacher who crossed out the "not" in "could not care less" in one of my papers. I don't *care* if that's the way most people say it; if I could not possibly care less, don't mark out my negative!
>14. Offer juice, soup and TLC when we're sick
Yes, please. And tea. Earl Grey. Hot. And chocolate. Dark.
>15. Do the come-from-behind cuddle-hug, just to say hello
G wrote:
> Definitely. G loves these, but never gets them. He'd
> give plenty of them if there was someone to give em to.
Awww.
I love hugs. Any kind, any time when I'm not doing something that requires intense concentration or good coordination, I want a hug.
> 16. Remember insignificant details, like our favorite
> color or flower, and make use of that knowledge
If it has to do with me, then no detail is insignificant.
> 17. Are unfailingly polite to all members of the service
> industries
Oh, yeah.
> 18. Offer us caresses and compliments for no particular
> reason
Of course.
> 19. Understand that we don't always like it slow and
> gentle in bed
>20. Understand that sometimes we do
Speaking hypothetically, I believe this is true.
P wrote:
> We'd need to work out some hand signals, I think...
Hand, lips, tongue, whatever.
Did I say that?
What do they really want, anyway?
At some ungodly hour this morning, one of the housemates cooked a dish which made my already-queasy stomach even queasier. Couldn't sleep after that. Just thought I should give y'all fair warning that I'm crabby.
>What Women Need to Know: 20 Things Men Find Irresistible
>
>Listen up, ladies! Men love it when you:
>
> 1. Have the ability to tease, be playful and take a joke
K wrote:
> Okay, I like this one. I like to laugh, but don't make
> fun of me. That I don't like.
With K on this one. Of course, I can take some good-natured teasing. But thanks to a rotten childhood, I have had more than enough mean-spirited ridicule to last the rest of my lifetime. Always remember that, given the choice between staying with an asshole and dying an old maid, I'll take spinsterhood in a heartbeat.
That said, personal history shows that an asshole with a sense of humor will keep my attention longer than the self-preservation instinct alone would allow.
> 2. Know that men are not, in fact, from Mars, and women
> are not from Venus
F wrote:
> And know that "self-help" books with bullshit catchy
> titles are a load of rotten bananas.
My parents collected self-help books. They inherited most of the books belonging to my grandfather, who also had a bunch of self-help books. I've not only read most of the famous ones, but I've read a few you've never heard of and never should have heard of. Nearly all self-help books, no matter what their authors' biases--unabashed capitalist, communist, Christian, Taoist, Buddhist, neopagan, atheist, positive thinker, utter cynic, behaviorist, cognitivist, Freudian, Jungian, whatever their credo or manifesto may be--have two things in common: 1. Some solid, common-sense advice, and 2. The veriest nonsense.
Here's what I'd like a man to understand: I am not going to be stereotypically feminine any more than I am going to be stereotypically masculine. I am also not going to be a stereotypical American, a stereotypical WASP, a stereotypical suburbanite, a stereotypical INFP, a stereotypical linguistics major with a minor in psychology, or a stereotypical anything else you might think I should be. I am going to be *me*. If a guy can't deal with that little fact--if he feels compelled to cram everyone he meets into some little box and gets all flustered when they crawl outside his imaginary walls--then he can stay the Hell out of my life.
> 3. Wear our T-shirts and boxers
K wrote:
> T-shirts, maybe, but I'm not wearing the boxers you farted
> in. I don't care *how* many times I've bleached them!
Love this. I like V's answer too--if a guy's got a leather jacket, can I wear it once in a while?
> 4. Call us out of the blue (if we're dating; not if
> we're practically strangers)
P wrote:
> Hell, I just want to find a woman who's willing to talk to
> me on the phone for more than 5 minutes.
I think I could do that. Unless my allergies are bad and I've got a killer sore throat.
> 5. Kiss creatively
If kissing like someone who doesn't know what the heck she's doing counts, then I can do that.
What? It's not like I've had any practice.
> 6. Have a social conscience and enjoy a good debate
I love a good debate. I dislike discussions with people who think that every disagreement with one of their opinions is a personal attack. I think for myself. Deal with it. And if a guy agrees with me on every point, I get bored and want to go home.
> 7. Have an easygoing attitude about watching or
> participating in athletic events occasionally
I don't much like watching sports, but I do enjoy watching people watching sports. I'm weird that way (among other ways).
> 8. Are comfortable leading the whole way in bed
Well, I can try to be the first to fall asleep, but I shan't make any promises.
> 9. Ask for advice about non-stereotypically male stuff
> (yes, guys usually know what CD player to buy, but we like
> to be taken seriously about other things too)
If I feel a need for advice, I'll ask just about anyone who seems unlikely to get upset if I decide not to follow it after all.
> 10. Are charming and thoughtful to his mother
If she managed to raise a guy who's worth spending time with, then I shall do my best to give her her due honor.
> 11. Can hold up your hair using only a pencil
Sorry, my hair also thinks for itself.
> 12. Are sexy and smart at the same time -- for example,
> you do the Sunday crossword wearing a pair of flirty
> pajamas
This would mean I'd have to *buy* flirty pajamas. I hate clothes
shopping.
U wrote:
> Flirty? Who the hell would get the crossword finished?
I was kinda wondering that myself.
F wrote:
> Doesn't this go without saying? I thought this came
> naturally to most women. Should, anyway.
Well, treating me with the respect that should be accorded to all human beings should come naturally to most men, but guess what?
> 13. Have the ability to remind us what gifts you like,
> without implying an obligation
K wrote:
> Don't worry. I'll let you know when the gift-buying
> occasions arise and you'll find a neatly typed list from
> which to choose no less than three items.
I love making Christmas lists. It holds the same appeal for me as filling out all our silly polls.
> 14. Have a spirit of independence, but one that doesn't
> make the man in your life feel unnecessary
Sweetie, you *are* unnecessary. How about if I make you feel *wanted*?
> 15. Know the difference between flirting and just ''being
> friendly''
If a man can accept the fact that I enjoy the company of men, then I can accept the fact that he enjoys the company of women. If a man feels that my social circle should be more circumscribed than his, then we have a problem.
> 16. Eat a big meal and fearlessly order dessert
Sometimes. I eat when I'm hungry, and I eat what I'm hungry for. And as my friends who've seen me at restaurants can attest, I'll try just about anything once.
> 17. Take naps next to us
Let me add my "sigh" to the chorus.
> 18. Send us flowers (believe it or not, men like getting
> flowers too!)
If I ever get money, I can do that.
> 19. Know what you want
> 20. Know what you want to do
I've got a decent idea of what I won't put up with and what I don't want to do. That should count for something.
>Listen up, guys! Women love it when you:
>
> 1. Own a pair of really nice shoes and actually wear them
Why should his shoes be any better than mine?
> 2. Brush the hair out of our eyes
Only if he's more coordinated than I am. Otherwise, I'll be afraid he's about to poke my eye out.
> 3. Are able to hold a baby or push a stroller without
> squirming
I'm not sure *I* can do this. Oh, I can push a stroller all right, but I'm always afraid the baby will have a sudden need for a diaper change as soon as it's transferred to my arms.
> 4. Plan an evening out from soup to nuts, from finding a
> movie to making the dinner reservations
Works for me. But if circumstances beyond his control interfere with his best-laid plans, I'd appreciate it if he'd manage not to have a heart attack.
> 5. Kiss creatively
It's a nice thought.
D wrote:
> Practice practice practice. If she will practice, I will
> improve.
Me too.
> 6. Handle our emotions with grace and compassion
But of course.
K wrote:
> Just let me cry. It has nothing to do with you and I
> don't expect you to fix it. Just hold me.
Ditto.
> 7. Have impassioned, informed opinions about women
> writers and women's issues
Okay, remember what I said in response to question 2 on the other side? I appreciate people who accept that individuals are in fact individuals and do not speak for an entire group, no matter what delusions of grandeur they may have.
>8. Can distinguish between being courteous and being wimpy
Sir Ector to Sir Launcelot, in Malory's _Le Morte Darthur_:
"Thou wert the meekest man that ever ate in hall among ladies; and thou wert the sternest knight to thy mortal foe that ever put spear in the rest."
There's a reason why knights in shining armor continue to have such appeal.
> 9. Know how to inscribe a card with a heartfelt, personal
> message
Well, sure.
> 10. Demonstrate respect for others by standing up when
> your mother comes to the table, giving up a seat on the
> bus for a pregnant woman, asking your dad for his opinion
> and really listening, etc.
The specific actions are less important than respect and the willingness to demonstrate that respect.
S wrote:
> I hold doors open for people and stuff, it can't be too
> hard for a guy to do it.
Ditto.
> 11. Show genuine, platonic interest in your female > friends' lives
U wrote:
> I should pretend that I am a homosexual and be
> philosophical about their problems? I think I can do the
> second part, but the first is right out, except in movies.
and P wrote:
> 100% platonic? Ain't gonna happen. I got too many
> attractive friends.
I can appreciate that. Just please try not to drool.
> 12. Are playful around dogs, cats and kids
and me. :-)
> 13. Make the bed in the morning and fold the laundry -- > competently
G wrote:
> Nope. I just throw the doona back over the bed. Laundry?
> eh, couldn't care less.
I can't fold sheets, so I'd appreciate it if someone else could get them in decent shape to stuff in the drawer. Fresh sheets feel nice. Otherwise, I don't much care about whether laundry is folded or not, which is evidenced by the fact that my clothes generally look like I've slept in them.
Oh, and G gets points for using "couldn't care less" instead of the annoying "could care less" construct. I once had an English teacher who crossed out the "not" in "could not care less" in one of my papers. I don't *care* if that's the way most people say it; if I could not possibly care less, don't mark out my negative!
>14. Offer juice, soup and TLC when we're sick
Yes, please. And tea. Earl Grey. Hot. And chocolate. Dark.
>15. Do the come-from-behind cuddle-hug, just to say hello
G wrote:
> Definitely. G loves these, but never gets them. He'd
> give plenty of them if there was someone to give em to.
Awww.
I love hugs. Any kind, any time when I'm not doing something that requires intense concentration or good coordination, I want a hug.
> 16. Remember insignificant details, like our favorite
> color or flower, and make use of that knowledge
If it has to do with me, then no detail is insignificant.
> 17. Are unfailingly polite to all members of the service
> industries
Oh, yeah.
> 18. Offer us caresses and compliments for no particular
> reason
Of course.
> 19. Understand that we don't always like it slow and
> gentle in bed
>20. Understand that sometimes we do
Speaking hypothetically, I believe this is true.
P wrote:
> We'd need to work out some hand signals, I think...
Hand, lips, tongue, whatever.
Did I say that?
no subject
Well, I always thought I didnt wanna change for anybody and that I would never find anyone who would love me for who I am.
Temperamental, childish, strong willed, strong personality, cute but round, short etc.
And now I've found one and on top of that I love him. ;)
I guess, it is like I always thought it would be. Love is about respecting each other and compromising a little bit but not so much that you get annoyed. ;)
My opinion anyway... :))
hugs/ Jennix